Relationships in Thailand part 7
Why are Thai men not interested in relationships with foreign women? And why don’t western women care about Thai men? After all Thailand is known for cross-cultural relationships and men come here by the tens of thousands to find female Thai partners. Why is this a one way street? Why do you rarely see Thai men with western women?
Who follows whom?
Thais are shy people compared to most westerners. Culturally it is not acceptable to show strong emotion, get angry, yell at people, confront someone head-on, or have an intense argument. On top of that in many Asian cultures the woman traditionally follows the man much more compared to the total equality concept that is prevalent in the west. And here we have a major sticking point.
Western women have no intention of merely following a Thai man, they have no qualms about speaking their mind, and they mostly insist on a good deal of independence, free thinking and freedom of choices. All this is so much opposed to the Thai relationship model that it would make most Thai men feel uncomfortable or even threatened.
No cheating allowed – period!
Thai men often have second wives and/or regular affairs with sexual partners. Whereas Thai women do not like that, they often put up with it. Western women would never tolerate such behavior. Many Thai men would feel that their lifestyle is too much restricted by a relationship with a western woman.
Who is the prettiest of them all?
A third reason is that Thai men do not find western women as attractive as Thai women. It is very rare that Thai men stare at western women or pursue them or harass them in any way. This is not the case everywhere in Asia. In India for example women often experience unwelcome advances, and in Bali you typically see relationships between Balinese men and western women.
Kid in candy shop or relationship desert
There are Thai man/western woman relationships, but they are a tiny percentage compared to western man/Thai woman relationships. What all this means is that western men are like a kid in a candy shop in Thailand in the relationship arena. Western women however are mostly limited to relationships with other westerners, so their available choices are much fewer than for their male western counterparts. Rather than being in a candy shop they often feel that they are in a relationship desert in Thailand.
The actual scenario
Let’s have a look at a fairly typical relationship between a western man and a Thai woman. The man has more money and supports his wife. Often he takes her to his home country and she has to adjust to a new culture. Because of her dependence on him for financial support and her challenge to adjust to a new environment in the west she relies on him for advice, education, integration, and her new way of life. She is happy to follow him since he is her life support in a strange new environment.
Exchange roles, and it breaks down
Now take that same story, but exchange the sexes. Reread that story but imagine that there is a western woman who has a Thai husband. It it blatantly obvious that this would never work. It totally flies in the face of male psychology and ego. The whole concept is just unthinkable from a Thai man’s point of view.
Feminine and sweet despite equality
Thai women have equal rights and enjoy more freedom than in many oriental cultures. There was never a women’s liberation movement in Thailand and men generally do not feel challenged by women. Despite their legal equality, Thai women have an amazing talent of being feminine, of retaining a female sweetness. They do not feel obligated to compete with men on their turf by wearing male looking business suits and ties and going head-to-head with their male co-workers. Rather than hiding their femininity, Thai women like to display it.
Because of those characteristics it feels natural for Thai women to adjust to their western partners and even sometimes follow them to another country. But the other way round this is not working at all. A naturally shy Thai man who is nevertheless endowed with a typical male ego, in a relationship with a self confident and assertive, educated and financially independent western woman – it is mostly not a workable concept, and it rarely happens.
Not all relationships in Thailand are made in heaven
The relationship scene in Thailand is definitely somewhat one-sided. That does not mean that women do not enjoy Thailand, but they are not likely to find a lover or husband here, and they would not want to. There are countless thousands of men who come here to find a partner or wife, but I am fairly certain that there is not one single woman who comes here looking for relationship heaven. Thai men and western women are just not a match made in heaven.
*****Please feel free to comment on this article and share it*****
Hello,
Thai women have equal rights ‘de jure’ not ‘de facto’ and there still is one major discrimination which, by the way many men complain about and would solve a lot of ‘ visa issue’ , and is that by law Thai women do not give citizenship and from the perspective of equality it is one of the major flaw in the equality agenda.
Thailand is a male oriented society with men in most Leadership positions in the business and the government sector. yes there are women in politics but not at strategic levels. There still is a long road to equalty in thailand as in many neighbouring countries. But yes agreed that in some ways it looks in apparence more free-will based than in Cambodia or other neighbouring countries. However Vietnam has better indicators than Thailand in this respect and considering that that country is also a ‘marriage heaven’ for men, it is interesting to note that there are western women with vietnamese men.
Your analysis is quite journalistic and humouristic and I like your straightforwardness .
Chock Dee
Isabella, you made some very valid points here. As always you are contributing very constructively.
Hi,
This sounds very accurate yet very opinionated. Would it be possible if women do care and love to be with their Thai man? I met a few who got married to Thai man and stayed in Thailand (possibly moved out of Thailand together). I, myself, am in love with my Thai man. I guess it makes it similar in ways. I’m Thai, Chinese, and Vietnamese born in America. I met my love in Thailand volunteering for my internship. We plan on creating a future. It’s quite tough but I want to make it happen and it’s gradually coming along.
Please reply.
-Darline
Hi Darline, certainly there are exceptions to general observations. I also know some western women who married Thai men. They are a very small percentage compared to the Thai-woman/western-man relationship, but certainly anything is possible. It seems that you have found a good relationship in the tiny percentage group – good for you. I wish you many years of happiness together!
(Part 2)
Forgot to mention, what if Western woman don’t care and decide to have a relationship with their Thai man. I think it would be possible for them to work together as a team especially if they plan on having children. If the woman is financially supportful and doesn’t care how they’re treated or judged, than it could be possible. I would make anything possible for my love to stay with me – in America or Thailand. It doesn’t matter anyway because I AM FORTUNATE and I treasure him very much. I have met too many men who doesn’t seem to match with me while mine is very “homely”.
(Keep in mind, the man I met is Akha villager. He’s not particularly Thai. He’s my Akha Man.)
Thankx,
Darline
Darline, my article describes what is happening most of the time in Thailand. Your situation falls outside of the “typical” scenario. Of course it is possible to make it work – even if you were the only one on the planet in such a relationship, it would still be possible to make it work. And you certainly have my best wishes!
Hello,
My name is Kumroon Maksirisombat, Ph.D. I am a Thai citizen, as I was born and raised in Thailand. I married my American wife for 36 years and we have two wonderful adult children together. I believed in any marriages, we must trust each other and we must have something in commom. My wife and I have the same work ethic, family values and outlook on life. I knew then and now that I need to give her the respect and valued her freedom and equality. I believed that if more western women would get to know Thai men better, they will likely to choose Thai men over western men. Statistically have shown that Thai men tend to support their wives more so than western men. We come from a very family oriented society. I wish you the best in your life and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Best Wishes,
Kumroon Maksirisombat, Ph.D.
Thanks for your comment Kumroon. I am always glad to hear about successful relationships. My impression is that Thai man/western woman relationships work best when the Thai man has a higher education and speaks English well enough to allow for easy communication. Obviously this is the case with you. Also you clearly do not just follow “Thai culture”, but you have excellent relationship values that are the basis for a truly successful partnership.
My Thai wife and myself subscribe to the same values, and we have the best relationship of our lives since 9 years already. It is inspiring for me to hear about your good and successful relationship.
Thank you for your insight and observation. Being half-japanese, half-American myself, i feel like this article is MUCH more descriptive of Japan than Thailand in regards to the western women/asian man relationship ratio, not that Thailand does not exemplify this skewed ratio as well because it definitely does. But in comparison with other Asian countries I feel like Thailand is definitely among the more liberal, maybe not as much as Bali but then again I feel like there are financial issues tied in with that as well. It is much harder for a western woman to find a Japanese man than the same woman to find a Thai man.
After spending a year abroad in Japan, I traveled to Thailand on holiday before returning to America and it was one of the best experiences of my life. After a year of feeling unattractive and unfeminine in tokyo by japanese men (despite being half), it was so nice to enjoy all the looks, boys and men asking for my number, telling me how beautiful i am, free beers and drinks and food, etc. in thailand!
i even ended up meeting a special thai man whom i am now happily married to. now i might be the exception, and i guess im not your typical western woman either, but after looking around and my own experience for the past few years in thailand, i really feel like things are not as skewed as they were before, at least in the south and especially with the younger men.
and i have to disagree with at least one of the statements you mentioned about thai men finding western women less attractive–this is definitely not the case in the south, or even the north i would wager. perhaps places like Bangkok where fashion and fair skin are more common and more emphasized. but in my time in the south, having a western girlfriend/wife is like a trophy prize! maybe it depends on the woman but it definitely feels like “farang” women have this unfair beauty advantage over thai women, in the eyes of thai men here, probably to do with their skin, light hair and light eyes, im not sure…but this was my observation. its typical to see young thai boys “sporting” their farang girlfriends around with pride, like its a bragging right, and others watching are impressed. when i was introduced to all my husbands family and friends, the first question they always ask is, what do i see in him? he has dark skin, typical thai country man–what is a beautiful girl like you doing with him?!! They cant wrap their heads around it!
we often get looks when we walk together, people are so shocked.
In any case, I would agree with a lot of points in your article, but would you say perhaps that this is an older take on Thai-Western relationships and things are changing now? Or is this just something happening in the South with younger generations?
Thank you for your time and observations
Thanks for your story Jennifer. I’m really tired of western men trying to make western women feel out of place in Thailand. Their attitude is like ” what are you doing here, nobody wants you here”
It’s completely untrue that Thai men are not attracted to Western women. It’s quite the opposite. I live in BKk and yes the men are shy but it doesn’t men they are not interested.
I’m wondering where the author of this article is and what experience they have with this topic.
Thai people in general give me special treatment.
Glad you found a nice Thai man.
Hi Jennifer,
thanks for your elaborate comment. I agree with you that there are many changes happening in Thailand with the younger generation. They are much more influenced by western models and western TV, and some are trying to break out of Thai cultural restrictions. My observation after living here for many years is that the western woman/Thai man relationship is clearly a very small minority compared to the western man/Thai woman relationship. But there are definitely some. I presented the most common scenario in my article, and there are clearly exceptions, and they might get more in the future with a gradual breakdown of Thai traditions by the young generation.
But still I don’t see too many Thai man/western woman relationships happening simply due to the psychological makeup of Thai men versus western women. If you have such a successful relationship, I congratulate you and wish you many happy years together.
I live in the north of Thailand. It is quite possible that in the southern beach tourist areas you find more young Thai men pursuing western women, but as soon as you get out of those liberal tourist areas and into typical Thai towns, you are back to the status quo again.
Where I live, in Chiang Mai, it is extremely rare to see a Thai man with a western woman. There are some, but just a tiny percentage.
I’m 19 and about 2 months ago I met a 26 year old Thai man. I live in Australia and he has lived here for about 2 years, his english isn’t fantastic which makes things a little difficult to explain to him sometimes but its alright.
Lately things have started to get a little bit strange and I was hoping someone who knew a little more about Thai people and their culture could shed some light on the matter.
He has become extremely possessive of me and if I am to even talk to or text a male friend he gets very upset and jealous, I was at work the other day and couldn’t pick up my phone for about 2 hours, when I finally called him back he was absolutely furious, got very drunk that night and called me at ridiculous hours of the morning saying he was coming to my house to get me and that he loved me.
Usually when I stay at his house he makes me have about 4 showers.. even if I say I have already showered he makes me have another one.. maybe ocd.. Maybe he is just very clean..
He is really nice but every time I see him it seems to be another extremely bizarre experience. whether he’s licking the chilli off my food and feeding me like a bird or telling me I’m not allowed to smoke or drink or wipe my face with a towel or taking my rings of my fingers and putting them on my ring finger, its all very strange and I’m wondering if its just what Thai men are like or if I should be slightly worried about where this might be going..
Well, Jasmine, from reading your comment I have to say that I think you should be more than slightly worried. What you described sounds like a recipe for disaster to me, regardless of the nationality of the both of you. What you described is pathological behavior on his part. In my experience jealousy is a bigger issue here in Thailand compared to most western countries, but your man has serious control issues.
It is true that Thais take showers frequently and also often before they go to bed, but again your man’s behavior is excessive and nobody has the right to control others or legislate their behavior.
My motto in such cases is “When in doubt, get out.”
Hi. I’m a Thai guy, but I have to say I totally agree with Shama on this one. I have Thai female friends whose boyfriend are really the jealous type, but they are nowhere near the level described by Jasmine. When he came to see her on campus and she was hanging out with us, he might give us some weird/jealous stare or go to the canteen and called her to meet up there ASAP, but that was as worst as it would get (we all became good friends, though, eventually).
I am genuinely concerned about the “bizarre behaviors” described. Read my lips: NORMAL THAI MEN DON’T DO THESE THINGS.
- Licking the chilli off your food is near fetish >_<
- Even in university, "bird-feeding" is only done as a game in college initiation rites, usually by members of the same sex (it's more hilarious that way).
- Not allowing you to smoke, drink, wipe your face, or take off a ring is psychotic.
Yes, "When in doubt, get out." This is HIS peer insisting here!
PS. I know this comment appears about a year later than it should, so perhaps I'm making this statement for future reference by other readers.
When I go out in Thailand, I am always pursued and talked to by Thai men. They are not as shy as you think. I have had a couple of Thai boyfriends as well and they were fun partners. I think your post has some valid information…but from what I can see, Thai men find western women attractive and worth talking to.
Hi Juliana,
I think that in recent years, mainly in the areas where there are lots of tourists or foreigners, Thai men show more of an interest in western women and lose some of their shyness. In the areas of Thailand where there is less presence of tourists and expats, Thai men tend to stay away from western women. I imagine that a gradual opening and loosening up of Thai-western relationships will continue especially amongst the younger generation. The ratio between Western woman/Thai man versus Western man/Thai woman relationship is still very extreme in favor of the latter. This might be changing slowly as you noticed in your own experience. I am glad you had some fun relationships with Thai men
hello
thank u mr. shama for ur article
u r right,most of those who wrote u back r half aisans so this makes it easier relationship with thai guys
to me a different case, coz im arabic and i like a thai guy. we r friends but i like him more than a just friend.
we go out together, have a lovely times and he is so nice and caring.
however, i think it is a frienship with these limits.
i showed him that i care too but thai r different from other nationalities seems they expect the girl to approach.
I dont know what to do!
rima
Rima, I am always in favor of initiating good communication. This is especially important in cross cultural relationships. Often it is difficult for Thais to open up and reveal what is really on their mind. This is how they are brought up and it is often a new concept to them that it is possible and indeed very useful to openly talk about how you feel and what would bring the two partners closer together. Some Thai men can feel intimidated by such an open approach since Thai women do not usually do that. But I feel that without open communication about a relationship it does not have a big chance of working out.
Judging from the comments to my article, there are some good western woman-Thai man relationships. I wish I could get a follow up on some of these comments a year later to see how it developed!
You are another special case being arabic, so there is again another type of energy entering the picture that the Thai man is probably not at all familiar with. Try to discuss things openly and see how he reacts, and please let me know how it works out. I wish you success and a happy relationship!
I am 100% British, but have quite asian features dark long hair, dark eyes, petite body fair skin etc. I have been living in Thailand since i was 14 years old and have found Thailand to be a very large candy shop!!! Thai men find me very attractive and i am continuously approached by Thai men. I found this article because me and my Thai boyfriend (of 3 years) are planning to get married. I suppose some of what you said is true that is mostly thai women are with western men but other parts i found hilarious and very untrue.I have had only Thai boyfriends and have been told that i am the kind of girl THEY dream about! i suppose growing up here, speaking the language and knowing the culture helps my situation.
Laura.
Oh and i met my boyfriend in a non-tourist town. Hardly any western faces at all.
Yes Laura, it does seem that you do not represent the typical scenario which I am describing. When writing about something, you cannot help generalizing to some degree. There are always some people at the end of both spectrums who do not fall into the main category. And that’s a good thing!
Cross cultural relationship challenges often stem from an inability to communicate effectively due to language barriers or misinterpretation problems, or from the ignorance of one or both partners about the cultural background and way of thinking of their partner. Clearly none of these are an issue for you, and that’s why I am not surprised that you don’t experience all the challenges that I am writing about.
Certainly it is possible to have a great cross cultural relationship. I know that because I have been in one for 9 years already. Like you, I have been in Thailand for a long time.
I am writing my articles in order to help people who are less familiar with Thailand understand what they might experience here. If you know the potential pitfalls, you can deal with them, or avoid them. I hope that my series of relationship articles will help some people get into good relationships and stay in them. A little knowledge can go a long way compared with the risks of getting into a relationship with starry eyes and little understanding of another culture.
I am a Thai country boy who not strictly prefer but enjoy companionship of western women.
Relationship between a Thai man an a Western women is like any other relationship in general.
There is a period of checking and feeling each others out. Glansing, observing froma afar,
smiling and nodding just to see if we are in similar wave length and bandwidth. However,
there are more complex issues for both. Language barrier, cultural differences and unertainly of
the meaning of specific guestures. It took a great deal of prerequisit and homework more so
than most poeple realize for a Thai man to take steps across those barrier lines of their owns
to explore the unknown but fascinating. I cannot say that I am an expert but I do have considerably
experiences.
Dear Westerb Women; Please don’t sell yourselves too short.
There are beauty and charm in Wester women in Thai men eyes.
But not every Thai guys equipted with language ability or internal courage
but I suppose you find that too amongst western men.
What are the qualities of Western women that are so applealing to Thai men?
I cannot speak for all Thai men as we all are individuals. But for myself, personally, I was raise
in rural village and in our family, especially, we treat the women with utmost respect.
Thus, I do not believe in the notion that women are incapacitate or lack of ability to lead or
making decision. Despite treated with liberty and freedom, however, most decided to stay put and
refrained from exertion of their opinions even if they know it would have been the right thing to do.
Assertiveness and expressiveness with reason in Western women are, therefore are, extremely charming
in many Thai men eyes, like myself. The way they were brought up and the way Thai culture and believe
making Thai women conservative in exploring unknown territories relating to relationship and otherwise.
This silently frustrating to progresive Thai men. This is also strength of Western Women.
Thai men were taught to be aware of other human beings feeling and practice so without truely
understanding the meaning of it-we did it as parts of being good citizen and just being nice to others.
Western women express their feeling rather openly and this an extention of our understanding of what
henhanced feeling really means. There are other aspects of intellectual stimilation in communication
that Western women brought into this cross culture relationship. Please forgive me! I do not mean that
Thai women are incapacitate in engaging in intellectual conversation. They possess the knowledge and
awareness necessary for the task but usually chose not to engage. It will take a novel to qlualify
this but lets leave it at that for now.
Physical attraction:
Personally, I do not buy into ‘gentlemen prefer blonde’ rubbish. However, I have to admit that
different in physical appearances attacted to me. But it not purely on the colour of he hair, eyes,
facial and skin complexion. It’s the whole package of differnces that each individual possessed.
I also do not believe in fair-coplexion obcession, I actally disapprove of it. So, I have dated
Filipina as well as Latinas and Afro-Anglo women. Having said that, I also found Chinese, Korean
and Japanese uniquely attractive in their own ways.
The best of both World:
After all experiences in Interacial relationship, I settle down with a Japanese woman who was born
in Tokyo, raised in a Jewish neighbourhood in upstate New York since she was 7. When we were dating,
she was vigoriously studing Thai and Thai dance. That should make a Thai guy like me happy and fell
for her head over heel, right? WRONG! I am not a Thai Missionary and I have no desire to convert
anyone including the women I love into Thai. In fact, I seek out to meet her and other Western women
becuase they are not Thai. I have plenty of Thai in myself I need not to create an extra, that’s how
I feel. But, her action demonstrate a great length she was willing to go to better understand the
person she was involved with and that was me. So, I reciprocate her effort by studying Japanese,
American and Asian-American and Jewish-American.
Now lets go back to the unfair comparision of Western men an Western women in Thailand.
To compare the experiences of the two genders from Westrn culture outright is not only misleading,
misrepresenting Thai men of who they really are and what they’re capable of.
Furthermore, it is doig Western women an injustice service leading to believe that their passionate
souls and psysical beauty are not really appreciative here, which is not true-not even close.
Western men and women who came to Thailand seeking love are, generally, from different edcational
and socio-economic backgrounds.
Most men are from a group of those you found in neighbourhood bars and pubs almost every single night.
They tend to be romanticall challenged in their own home turfs. Anything out there with love and
certain respect is a paradise regardless of how they aquired them. I am not trying to put these men
down but I have spent considerable amonth of time traveling through those places playing in Darts
Tournament across North America plain.
(with a long hair and high cheekbone-people thought that I was a native American so I can get away with thing)
Western Man and Thai Women:
So, a western man found love in one of the bar girls and they mutually agree to get marry.
He took her with him, supports her financially, guides through her adjustment into the new culture.
Credit to Western men, most of them doing this really well.
Western Women and Thai men:
Okay, she pick him out of a group of bar boys. Really?
The idea of a women took a man home support him the same way as their men counterpart and their
partners not only will not work in a Western womean and Thai man relationship. It doesn’t work, period!
It doen’t work even in a relationship between a Thai Woman and a Thai man or a Westen woman and a Western man.
Aleast not from the way they met.
Western women are generally looking for a relationship.
Western men are generally looking for quick relife and luck.
There requirement criterias are totally different.
I feel that women who have contribute to comment here have hinted
the answer of;
1. Where do I meet Thai Men Who Are Interested In Western Women?
2. What are the things in Western women that attracted to Thai men?
3. How do I develop a better standing of my Thai Boyfriend?
4. How do I make my Thai Boyfriend understand me?
5. Is there couple couseling practice in Thai culture?
6. Why this land doesn’t smile at me anymore
7. Suddenly, there are smiles all over again
Oh well, maybe its about time to launch Thai Drama series, eh?
Hi Nirnam,
thanks for your interesting perspective and your highly detailed post. It’s great to get Thai men respond to this topic – very helpful.
I know that was way too long but glad to share hopefully there are some useful information between those sarcastic lines. I was working in a refugee comp along Thai-Cambodian boder in the 80s and knew quite a few Thai-Western couples. That, however, was a different environment. While there were culture gap to be worked on between given two passionate souls, they were sharing certain similar values in they both working for a humanity cause. Work place even in metropolitant office would certainly bring out certain charactors of a person of interest. But, for a Western women as a tourist I could see how difficult that could be. Good news! A lady I knew had just written a book on East-West Relationship and it should be on the market fairly soon, if not already. I haven’t read it so I can’t comment on the book just yet. She is a Thai who married to a an American. I just hope that she has had some interview with Thai men – Western women couples in her book to shed some smile out there.
Personally, I believe that any truthful relationship is indifinitely beautiful. Interracial relationship which requires a great deal of understanding and adjustment just take in to the next levels.
Cheers!
There are quite a few books out about Thai-western cross cultural relationships, and they are generally really interesting. I agree with you that such relationships can be great learning tools. That has definitely been the case in my own 9 year relationship with my Thai wife. This has been and still is the best relationship of my entire life.
Congratulations on your personal relationship!
Out here, in the west, there are books such as The White Husband’s CLub. I am sure men have gone through their owns ups and downs and out of resolution of their, well, ours. This is where it has been illustrated clearly that men and women are two different species that coexist. Women will definitely turn to all resources of advise including amongst wives where as men would rarely, and that is generous opinion, do the same.
Personally, I am somewhat guilty of signing as a witness of Thai husbands and Western wives on their marital document at the City Hall four times. One of the couple was very interesting. Her parents had asked to visit my family, as I am sure their duaghter used us as a proving evidence, and so they came and stay with us for two weeks-Thanks to them we then had a good reason for having a guestroom. So, the Physiology Professor of a reknown University approved his only daughter marriage to a Thai man at the end of their visit.
Life in the US is far different than what Holliwood had portrayed and so I was occasionally received a promotion. From a marital witness to an after the fact marriage couselor. Thai or not men just not good at facing this aspect of relationship let alone admitting their is a problem. This is where a big down side of cross-culture long term relationship. To the credit of western men, they are raised in the culture where couple cuounselling or expressing emotion are a norm, in most cases. It is , generally, a rare concept for most Asian men with Thai men are included.
And, here I am, I suppose to issue statement of encouragement to Western women who seek relationship with Thai men of their dreams. Instead, I am pointing out a rather negative scinario. Please don’t be discourage! These are things that can work out providing that both parties are aware of cultural and values differences. You are in a unique relationship and as long as you or both of you realized that, it will be a beautiful one.
Nevertheless, the idea of a book titling ‘The Western Wife’s Club’ that begins from ‘the first sight’ to ‘dating phase’ is somewhat intriguing!
Interesting article. But while I find you have some valid points, you write a bit one-sided.
These are my standpoints:
In my four years in Thailand I have found that many Thai men find western women attractive.
Relationships between western women/thai men do work.
And Thailand isn’t really a dating-desert for western women if they are open to Thai men. You are right that Thailand would be a desert if they’d exclusivly look for western men… but that is kind of logical to me, as there’s a much smaller choice of western men and 99% of men are Thai.
What I read a bit from your post is the underlying statement that all western women are feminists and unfeminine… You wrote it in a very polite and objective manner, but it seems you have the same “bias” about wester women that many western men will openly write about in some Thai forums.
I’ve seen you emphasize that there are more western man/thai women couple than the other way around. Of course that is true. But isn’t it kind of logic if we look at why many men come to Thailand in the first place? And why women come here?
Many men come here to find a partner or have some fun and then fall in love. Women mostly come here on holidays without any intention of finding a partner. So I find it difficult to compare two totally different groups with different intentions. We could also ask the question why are there so many Jamaican Men/Western Women couple in Jamaica and not the other way round. Is it that Jamaican women are not attractive?
I met many women that spend some more time in Thailand (volunteers, work) that would meet a Thai guy at some point (me amongst them). Of course if the relationships works out is up to the couple and cross-cultural relationships are always a challenge, but I believe love would help work around these differences.
So in short I appreciate your polite writing style but I find the overall article a bit one-sided and opinionated. Of course the same is true for my comment.
p.s.: Nirnams viewpoints are very interesting!
Thanks for your extensive comment Mina. I agree that my writing is opinionated. Like you point out, yours is as well. Luckily we all have somewhat different opinions – imagine a world where we all have the same opinions:)
You make some very valid points, like the different reasons why many men come to Thailand compared to women. And of course Thai man/western woman relationships can work – they are just a small minority compared to Thai woman/western man relationships, and they face more challenges as I pointed out in my article.
My writing is based on my experience of living in Thailand for well over a decade, being married to a Thai woman, and having spoken to countless couples, both Thai and farang as well as men and women.
It is quite normal that if you try to present an average of anything you end up with a bell curve, meaning that even if you catch the largest part of the bell curve, there will always be a smaller but still substantial percentage on the outer edges of the bell curve which falls outside of your perimeters.
Since I can never accurately represent everybody’s experience, I can at least stimulate some lively comments like yours which add interesting perspectives from the outer edges of the bell curve. And those might gradually, with the rapidly changing cultural environment, gravitate toward the inside of the bell curve. In 20 years from now, my article might be totally outdated and superseded by a new generation which will have changed significantly.
As of today, I am sure that my observations apply to a majority of relationships. This does not invalidate your experiences at all, and quite honestly, I hope that your experiences will become the norm one day.
I have spoken to so many western men about their observations regarding western and Thai women, and I have noticed a definite consensus. Clearly western women are more feminist than Thai women. This is quite easy since the concept of feminism practically does not exist in Thailand, but it has become an established phenomenon in the west.
Of course not all western women are hard core feminists – probably very few of them are – but they tend to be more direct, more outspoken, have a higher degree of self confidence, and are more willing to tell you in your face if they don’t like something.
Thai women have a natural sweetness that appeals to western men and they are, like Thais in general, less inclined to be confrontational than their western counterparts. And this is not just my opinion. Most western men share this perception.
Like most things in life, this is not a black and white, good versus bad issue. It is not a value judgment, but just a way of pointing out cultural attitudes and different ways of thinking and acting.
I have good western female friends and enjoy the ease of communication and understanding of issues that we share due to similar cultural backgrounds. And I enjoy my relationship with my Thai wife which has very different aspects that I appreciate.
We cannot always get everything from one person. It would be unreasonable to expect our partner to be our ideal match in terms of communication, life style, sexually, intellectually, physically etc.
Thai and western women bring different things to the table. For me, when it comes to relationships, I have thrown my lot in with a Thai women, and I am very happy with my choice. And I agree with you, love can solve many issues. I hope that lots of people here in Thailand find a loving relationship, whatever their gender, race or cultural background.
Okay, so I know that this has been up a lot already. But I must say that I disagree at some points. I’m a teenager from scandinavia (blond hair, blue eyes, white skin) and I was at vacation in Thailand for three weeks in february. As I was walking down the streets, was at the markets, at the beach or whatever most of the boys was very interested in me. (Even in a small village I visited) I don’t know how many times I heard thai boys telling me how beautiful I am. A lot of them gave me flowers, free drinks and asked for my number. Two boys were even trying to kiss me! In my eyes they were therefore much less shy than you describe. And also less shy than the boys are where I live. So, for me it wasn’t like a relationship desert, but the complete opposite. And I was in both south and north Thailand. I can see that it may be difficult having a relationship/getting married, when the cultures are so different, but for a teenager like me it was heaven!
Hi Emilie,
Thanks for your input. There are several possibilities:
1. Maybe you are so drop dead gorgeous that the Thai boys just can’t help themselves
2. Maybe your way of dressing feels suggestive to them
3. Maybe the winds of change of the younger generation is picking up steam
4. Maybe all three above apply
In either case: good for you and I am glad you had a great time here!
5. Not to offend you but maybe you have made a mistake by saying that Thai men do not find western women as attractive as Thai women. Sorry to say it like that but If you talk about these fat cows wearing short and slippers during their tourist tour then ok, I understand.
A lot of Thai men are looking at me in the street and some are not even scared to let me know that I am beautiful. Some are even singing songs to me. I am now dating a Thai boy and he is very happy to be with me. We love each other very much and he finds me very attractive.
Lila, if you scroll 4 posts up, you find a long response of mine where I outline what my observations are based on. Again, of course there are relationships between Thai men and western women, but they are a very small minority compared to Thai woman/western man relationships.
At the risk of offending some western women, pretty much all western men find Thai women on average more attractive than western women. Thai men agree with that. Compared to western women, there are very few overweight women in Thailand, although this is starting to change.
I have no doubt that if there is a young, attractive western woman, many Thai men will find her attractive. However I know many western women here in Thailand who might not have perfectly shaped bodies and are middle aged, and Thai men are generally not interested in them at all. They prefer younger and prettier Thai women.
Youthfulness is a much bigger factor here in Thailand than in the west where generally most couples are not so far apart age-wise. I know of tons of cases where Thai men have dropped their partners to go off with a younger woman, and many Thai wives live in fear of that.
I assume you are fairly young and good looking. Wait for 10 or 20 years, and you will be much more likely to agree with the statements in my article, because by then certain realities in Thailand will have caught up with you.
Most people who posted objections to my “Relationships in Thailand” articles are young women who have their age and their good looks going for them. Middle aged western women are facing a very different reality here in most cases.
And even there you can find exceptions. But, as I mentioned several times before, my article is based on averages, not on exceptions. And after 14 years here in Thailand, I have a pretty good understanding of what is happening in Thailand.
Thanks for sharing your opinions and please feel free to disagree with me.
I appreciate your insights and well thought through response.
Although I want to add a bit to your last response to Lila:
You write: “I have no doubt that if there is a young, attractive western woman, many Thai men will find her attractive. However I know many western women here in Thailand who might not have perfectly shaped bodies and are middle aged, and Thai men are generally not interested in them at all. They prefer younger and prettier Thai women.”
Of course, generally you are right (Although I’d go even more general and say “Men prefer younger and prettier women”). It’s a kind of a natural law I guess. This is the same everywhere in the world. But looking at Thailand, men (western and Thai) have a bit of an advantage, as there are more women than (straight) men (please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m yet to find trustworthy statistics on it, but looking around it does seem that way).
It is not only for western (middle-aged, less attractive) women but also for Thai women (as you also point out, that they live in fear of being deserted by their husbands). I have many female single-friends in their early 30s who can’t find a decent boyfriend or who prefer to stay single because the choice is not great (if I had to choose between a gigolo or a closet-gay I would prefer to stay single too). There are decent Thai guys, but they are usually taken.
I do disagree with your “all western men find Thai women on average more attractive than western women. Thai men agree with that.” because I think this is up to personal taste. But I guess we have different tastes and experiences.
Personally I think they are just as attractive (or not) just compare a 20 year old western woman with a 20 year old Thai/Asian women. You will probably prefer the Asian looks while someone else will prefer the western looks. But you are right that on average westerners will be more overweight.
Ok, I’ll stop here now. Again, appreciate your insights and response, even though we disagree here and there.
Mina, we definitely agree on one important point. There are more women than men in Thailand, and a good percentage of the men are either gay, ladyboys or monks which takes them out of the availability pool. This puts women at a disadvantage compared to men who have lots of choices in Thailand.
Maybe this accounts for the often extreme jealousy of Thai women. It is hard enough for them to find a good partner, as you pointed out, and then it is even harder for them to keep their man, given the availability of females and the Thai (male) tradition of having more than one wife.
I am glad that we disagree on some issues. If that would not be the case, there would be very little dialogue here:)
Majority of the Thai men that I met are not interested in Western women because they much rather want Western MEN! Seems like every Thai person I’ve met so far, regardless of gender, is after Western MEN!
Chichi, you have a very good point here! It’s true, there are so many gays in Thailand anyway, but in the last few years I have noticed a trend among the young Thais that it has become fashionable to be gay.
It’s the latest cool thing to do, and since there is very little judgment towards gays in Thailand compared to western countries, they flaunt it without having to worry about enduring any social consequences. Where I live, in Chiang Mai, I see lots of western men walking around hand-in-hand with young Thai men.
Poor women – with all the gays, ladyboys and monks, their choices are shrinking. But I have noticed that they are fighting back their way. There is also a big trend towards lesbianism in Thailand. The relationship scene in Thailand can indeed be very confusing when you try to figure out who is with whom, and who else is in the picture, or rather hiding in the picture.
Thailand is quite a colorful place with all those transgender, transsexual, homosexual, bisexual, extramarital, multiple relationship, paid relationship and whatever else situations. But since Thais are quite tolerant in this regard, it all somehow fits into the social framework.